Explicit wheel size rules
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
Comment
I don't really understand what this proposal is trying to do.
Comment
I agree with Scott, what is the purpose of this proposal.
BTW - typo: "...while all older age groups should 24". " should be "...while all older age groups should use 24". "
Comment
As to the purpose if this proposal:
A friend said to me recently that young riders in the IUF slalom have a wheelsize limit of 20 inch. I always thought that wheelsize was 'unlimited' in the slalom.
I tried to look it up in the IUF Rulebook (2013 edition), but I could not find who was right: me or my friend. As far as I could find, the wheelsize it is not explicitly stated. The same is true for other races such as 100m, but for that I somehow knew about the 20 and 24 inch restrictions. My friend then pointed me to Unicon results, which are explicitly given for 20" for the youngest groups, so I concluded he was right about the wheelsize restriction. I consider the lack of an explicit wheelsize rule a shortcoming of the Rulebook. This is what my proposal tries to correct.
But I wrote in the body of the proposal "Or did I miss it and is this already regulated somewhere already?"
If it is in the rules already, please explain where.
The typo is well-spotted, I'll correct it.
Comment
I know a Standard Unicycle is defined as 24" and has a metric equivalent. Do the 20" and 29" have metric equivalents?
Comment
Yes. It's in the rulebook.
For 29” wheels, the outside diameter of the tire may not be larger than 768mm.
• For 24” wheels, the outside diameter of the tire may not be larger than 618mm.
• For 20” wheels, the outside diameter of the tire may not be larger than 518mm.
• For 16” wheels, the outside diameter of the tire may not be larger than 418mm.
Comment
It's a common misconception that a Standard Unicycle is 24". See the definition of Standard Unicycle in the current Rulebook (2013), page 18. A Standard Unicycle can have any wheelsize.
For Track Racing, wheel sizes are 20", 24" and 29", according to the current Rulebook, see section 2.1.3. It also says that 16" may be added. It is not defined however, which ages rides which wheel sizes. That is my point.
Like Scott says, there are metric dimensions defined. To be precise, those are not "metric equivalents" but the actual maximum diameter in mm. "24 inch" is a name (or a nominal size, if you will), not an actual maximum size. One inch is exactly equivalent to 25.4 mm, but 24 inch (as a value and a length unit) is not equivalent to 618 mm. Then again, metric equivalent or not is beside the point of my proposal.
Comment
Huh. It's not really explicit, is it? This has been assumed by us for so long; since the days when there were far fewer events and the competition's registration form was an integral part of what riders used as their information to prepare for a competition.
In the 70s, when Bernie Crandall and Paul Fox were taking turns hosting the USA National Unicycle Meet, they did the full range of races on 20" and 24" wheels. Later there was less interest in 20" since it was obviously slower; people preferred to race on stuff that was faster.
We allowed 20" wheels for kids too small to fit 24" wheels, and provided some categories specific to them, where they wouldn't have to compete with a few larger riders on 24" wheels.
In all cases, wheel size limits were maximums; you could always ride something smaller.
In Slalom racing, the same rules as the track are meant to apply on wheel size. If you're in the 0-10, 20" category, your maximum wheel size is 20". If you are in an older age group, your maximum size is 24". The Slalom is part of the "Track" world of races, and is not Unlimited. Same is meant to apply to all the other events listed in the Track section, unless it is specified otherwise.
As Klaas points out in is most recent post, the "official" measurements we use for these wheel sizes is metric. This was a fairly recent change, when it became an issue that too many exceptions were possible outside of tire labeling and an inch-based maximum diameter number (24.333").
Comment
> Huh. It's not really explicit, is it? This has been assumed by us for so long
Indeed it is not explicit. Apparently it is assumed that every rider knows this. But I think it should be in the rules, hence my proposal.
Comment
If you have any objections against this proposal, please speak up so we can adress/discuss them. If not, I think it's ready for voting.
Comment
I now understand the need for this proposal. However, I don't feel that what you have written addresses the problem.
You currently have:
Unless otherwise specified, all Track&Field races for riders of 10 years old and younger should use 20", while all older age groups should use 24".
I suggest something more like:
If an age group is for riders only between the ages of 0 and 10 (i.e. age groups like 0-8 or 9-10), then these age groups have a maximum wheel size of 20". If an age group can contain riders older than 10 (i.e. age groups like 0-13, 13-15, or 30+), the maximum wheel size is 24".
The difference here is that you were referring to the riders' age (when riders of age 8 can choose either size to race on), whereas I am referring to the age groups for riders of a certain age. I hope the difference is understandable.
Comment
I understand the difference, and indeed your version is better. Can we shorten it (including some other edits) to:
If an age group is only for riders of 10 or younger (e.g. 0-8 or 0-10), then this age group has a maximum wheel size of 20". All other age groups (e.g. 0-13) have a maximum wheel size of 24".
Secondly, you omitted "Unless otherwise specified". I included this e.g. for slow race (wheel size is free), or 29" track racing (20" and 24" don't apply, regardless of age). I want to start the sentence with that phrase.
Comment
I agree with your points. My only comment is that by including an older age group as well, it makes it clear that it applied to those age group as well. My update would then be:
Unless otherwise specified, if an age group is only for riders of 10 or younger (e.g. 0-8 or 0-10), then this age group has a maximum wheel size of 20". All other age groups (e.g. 0-13 or 14-16) have a maximum wheel size of 24".
Comment
It might be possible to say this more directly, which I will try below. Looks like this proposal will effect 2.1.2 and 2.1.3. This content probably belongs in 2.1.3 but then we may want to take out the mentions of 20" in 2.1.2. Or maybe not, as that is a more direct association of wheel size to age group.
Based on 2.1.3:
"Wheel sizes for track racing are 20”, 24” and 29”. Additional groups for 16” or other wheels can be added. When not otherwise specified, 24" is the maximum wheel size above age 10. For age groups with a maximum age of 10, the maximum wheel size will be 20" (or less, if smaller sizes are also used). The youngest age group for 24" wheels should have a minimum age of 0, so riders 10 and younger have the option of racing on 24" with those groups (i.e. 0-13). All riders in age groups between 0 and 10 will race a 10m Wheel Walk, and 10m Ultimate Wheel, if used (instead of 30m)."
Comment
Looks like I overlapped with Scott. Let us know which way of explaining it makes the most sense.
Comment
I like John's attempt at simplification. However, there's a problem:
"For age groups with a maximum age of 10"
How does that work for the 0-8 age group?
Comment
> "For age groups with a maximum age of 10". How does that work for the 0-8 age group?
We can make that "a maximum age of 10 or lower".
I would change "i.e." in John's proposal to "e.g."
Maybe I don't fully understand the English usage of these abbreviations, but I interpret i.e. as if there is a 0-13 group for sure. However, that is not the case. There could be a 0-12 and then 13-14 group, for example. So the 0-13 in John's proposal is an example of "those groups".
Comment
Klaas, I had to look up the difference between "i.e." and "e.g." too. It's a mistake that English speakers make all the time. In this case (and almost always in the rulebook), the correct use is "e.g."
Thus we have:
"Wheel sizes for track racing are 20”, 24” and 29”. Additional groups for 16” or other wheels can be added. When not otherwise specified, 24" is the maximum wheel size above age 10. For age groups with a maximum age of 10 or younger, the maximum wheel size will be 20" (or less, if smaller sizes are also used). The youngest age group for 24" wheels should have a minimum age of 0, so riders 10 and younger have the option of racing on 24" with those groups (e.g. 0-13). All riders in age groups between 0 and 10 will race a 10m Wheel Walk, and 10m Ultimate Wheel, if used (instead of 30m)."
If you're happy with this, please submit the revision.
Comment
Revision submitted, including a few more minor edits (as specified in the change log).
I'm happy.
Comment
Scott, I don't know when you're off to Unipal. How do we go about putting this proposal to vote? I don't think I can do that, (even) as proposer?
Comment
Klaas, you are correct, only directors can set things to a vote. I have internet for a few more days. Also, Olaf has access to all of the admin features and knows to be watching things when I am gone.
Comment
I grew up speaking English, not understanding it. "e.g." it is! :-) Klaas, you are great at fixing this language and making it more clear for all!