1:30 minute runs in prelims
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
Do 1:30 runs for prelims but keep the 2 minute runs for finals.
We tested this at a small competition in Germany and it worked well. However, Unicon is very different.
Thoughts?
Comment
1:30 is a really short time. But I still think it's a good idea. The riders will just have to show their best tricks. And maybe the competition will get more interesting because riders won't show the same tricks in every rouund if the time is shorter and they have some other good tricks.
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I agree that it is a short time but I think that it's enough. It really forces riders to perform well.
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Which rounds you consider a prelim? At unicon we had 3 rounds for female, 2 for male.
I remember I tested a shorter time with Felix at our local club. I don't remember if it was a 1min or 1:30min. Whatever it was, it was considered to be too short but that was at an early state of X-Style before there was the round-concept.
Can you tell a little more about that event, Scott? How many riders, rounds, etc. to get a little impression about it?
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X Style has the chance to become really popular in the next years and the competitor number will become higher. So I think that 1:30 would be a good time for the first round. You don't see all tricks of the riders but you can see their best tricks and the competition will not get boring because it takes to long.
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Gossi makes a good point about what is a prelim round. At least the first round should be shortened to make the competition go faster.
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Less time in the first round, but only with many competitors, is a good idea, I think.
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Felix, you are the math guy here: Is there a way to find a good relationship between the number of rounds and the average number of riders in groups (especially the first round), that extracts to a formula with a variable "number of riders" and a scaling factor that calculates some prognosed schedules with different times for each rounds? If no scaling factor is given a list of common factors is iterated. This would calculate the maximum duration for the event. the contra-formula would be, we are given that amount of time for the event, we have that number of riders, what scaling factor should we use?
Does that make sense?
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To make run time short makes time of the whole event short.
And it's useful in the meaning to give the pleasure of the tactics to X-style.
A first round 1.00min.
Second round 1.30min
Final 2.00min.
I think I'd like this.
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What gossi is proposing: Have the run times adjusted depending on the time frame of the whole competition. Did I understand correctly? I think this is not what we want. If we don't have a fixed time frame we should limit the number of competitors instead. Atata: Interesting concept. What do you suggest when we have 4 rounds?
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Hi,Felix.
I think as follows.
1st round 1.00min.
2nd round 1.00min
3rd round 1.30min
Final 2.00min.
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So essentially it sounds like what Atata is proposing is 1 min for all of the preliminary rounds, 1:30 for the semi-finals, and 2 mins for the finals. I like the idea.
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There is really no such thing as a semi-final round for x-style. Also the number of rounds for x-style depends on the number of competitors. My suggestion combined with the interpretation of Patricia and Atata's comments:
If three or more rounds:
1st round: 1 minute
intermediate rounds: 1:30 minutes
finals: 2 minutes.
If two rounds:
1st round: 1:30 minutes
finals: 2 minutes
Comment
Well, I meant something similar but in the typical gossi-complexity ;)
I'm sorry to disappoint you but 1min is too short. This was one of the earliest test-results during prototyping X-Style. A rider can't really demonstrate enough in 1min and a judge will have too less information to get a proper ranking done.
Though I like the idea of increasing times per round. What might be possible is to increase the time for the final round, given there will be at maximum 20 riders.
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I don't think 1 minute is too short.
Because it's short, we need tactics, and X-style is made exciting.
Which trick is shown first?
Which trick does the next round keep?
When failing in a trick, is it abandoned whether it's re-tried?
etc.
I think it's the point that X-style is good that there are no demerit marks to fall.
"It's short." it makes the bigger sense.
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I really do like the tactical part, that X-Style receives due to that rule change.
I rechecked Street/Flatland rules, because they evolved form what was once called "Street Freestyle" in Switzerland 2006. I remember the prelims were 1 minute and hardly anybody landed tricks back then. The rules changed it to 1:30min to please the riders but they are back now to one minute, I guess because riders showed consistency for that minute and because of the much higher number of riders now competing there. I kinda would expect something similar for X-Style. Another fact is, flat tricks are executed much faster than freestyle tricks, given a standglide or drag seat riding, you could do ~5 stationary tricks during that time. Especially the last fact turned us away from 1min (or even 1:30min) for runs and that was appreciated by riders. However, I'm open for discussion and would rather give it another test, than declaring something now we later regret.
Scott: I do like the fact giving the first round a specific time, the final round and all between. Last Unicon this would have worked for the girls, because they had 3 rounds. The boys only had 2 rounds. Is the first round for the boys being understand as the first round or the ones between and receive the middle time? What do you suggest regarding this odd case?
Comment
Gossi,
I have already addressed this in my comment above, but I'll put it here again.
If three or more rounds:
1st round: 1 minute
intermediate rounds: 1:30 minutes
finals: 2 minutes.
If two rounds:
1st round: 1:30 minutes
finals: 2 minutes
Comment
gossi is right. This needs to be tested at a competition before we can decide anything here. We can only discuss which things to test.
My suggestion is:
Last and second last round: 2:00 minutes
Every other round: 1:00 minute
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So what do we do? Is there any competition in the next Time where we can test shorter times?
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It's too late to test the shorter times.
Currently we change the rulebook once every two years. Maybe this is a flawed system but it is what we have. As a main organizer of many events, including the next Unicon, I can tell you that the current system of 2 minutes for everyone takes too long.
At Unicon 17, X-Style required a lot of time, and there will be more competitors at Unicon 18. There is no good way to limit the number of competitors for X-Style because there is not a qualification event for it. Also, I would prefer to keep the event open to all competitors. However, with the current system of 2 minutes for everyone, it will take too long at Unicon 18.
That means we have to change the rules now.
I tested the 1 minute prelims at a small event in East Germany. It was short and fast, but worked well. Because it was so fast, I prefer my system with 1:30 minutes for intermediate rounds in comparison to your idea.
We could change my proposal so that the 1; 1:30, 2 minute system is the suggested format and not the required one. Then if we discover through testing at NAUCC and UNIOEC that it doesn't work, the event organizer can change the format again.
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Sounds good. Run duration depends on the time the event can offer. The rules should mention a minimum and maximum limit (?) so it is flexible and still fair for everybody. I think this is also used for Flatland or in a smilar fashion. I would suggest the range for one round from 1 minute to 2:30 minute per run. The rounds and participants for each round are known prior to the event and the X-Style director can announce the times before the event starts, after registration is closed.