Photographers / video filmer inside of hte competition area
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
"Just allow photographers to lurk in the Safety Ring. :-)"
John came up with this comment and it lead me to this discussion. While we need photographers and filmer to provide our sport to the world, it is sometime a mess how they behave while competitions / how many of them lurk arround inside of the competition area. I think that they should ask in advance to be acredited and in case they get green lights, they should wear a special Tshirt for example which make it easy to recognize them and to kick out those which are not acredited. It looks not proffessional and it often confuse and/or disturb riders when to many of them are lurking arround them. Also often proffessional photographers are blocked by private people that don't know what they are doing. There should be a clear rule in chapter 1 that define who is allowed to enter the competition area.
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I agree totally, and this is a problem that will only get worse as our sport grows.
The Trials finals and the Street competition at Unicon were a good example of both extremes. For Trials, we asked photographers and videographers to "register" themselves a couple of hours before the start of the competition. We gave them a cockade and one of our pink volunteer t-shirts. We kept them at a reasonable number, to keep things under control. During the competition, only riders and people with pink shirts were allowed on the course, which didn't cause any problem, in great part because the whole area was fenced.
On the opposite, the Street course was very large, and the set up and ambience didn't really make it possible to close the area to public. Filmers were running everywhere to try to capture the best moves, and sometimes even got in the way of competitors. Having the same system of cockades as Trials would probably have helped, but not solved everything. I think one of the only thing that would be perfectly efficient would be to fence the course, unfortunately for the competition experience (the relation to public is not as fun...).
The other competitions didn't seem to cause much issue, mostly because the competition areas were usually already secured, or spectators/photographers are smart enough to respect some distance.
Perhaps if we actually come up with a proposal, we should make sure to word it as to make it mandatory for large IUF events such as Unicons, but keep it optional for smaller events.
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I totally agree with Hugo here.
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I agree with Hugo and Scott as well.
I think the high action, quick move events such as Trials and Street are the events that are and will be the most difficult to keep non-official people out of the way. Most other events either have areas which boundaries are implied (such as courts in a gym.)
As Hugo noted too, keeping it optional for smaller events is important as some national organizations are using the IUF Competition Rulebook for competitions.
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Thanks for those usefull input which name mostly all typical problems. I agree completely so I will think about how to put it into a rule that cover the problem good and keep some flexability. Street parks / courses are realy the most difficult area and at the same time the area where camera people result in the most trouble for riders.
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Agreed to all of the above.
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I agree with everything said so far. And I learned a new word: cockade (had to look it up).
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I don't know what a cockade is either. I hope it's not a drink. :-)
<Looks it up> Oh. Hmm. I didn't get one. I did get the T-shirt though.
I was proud to be an "official" photographer at the Unicon 17 Trials competition. It worked well there, and was the most formally organized photographer situation that I've experienced so far at Unicon. Photo/video people were only allowed in with permission. Previous Unicons, back to XIII, all had closed Trials courses. Spectators could have a good view, but entry was limited. At Unicon XIV I had to be a formal volunteer (wear the shirt) to be inside the Trials area.
If there were any weak spots at Unicon 17, it was maybe that there were too many of us trying to watch some of the same things at the same time. Videographers many times did walking dolly shots in front of a row of photographers; not sure if they noticed they were doing this. Video people have different requirements for getting shots than still photographers, so it's important for each to respect the other and make sure all can get their best coverage without interfering with each other.
Here are some ideas for rules for this; these would apply to Trials:
- Photographers/videographers mus either register ahead of time to be inside the perimeter, or have actual press credentials (professional photojournalists, TV news people, etc.).
- Registered shooters must have some form of ID, whether it be something on a lanyard, a volunteer shirt, or whatever is used, to help identify them as belonging in there.
- Qualifications for being in there must go beyond asking. Thou shall not judge a photographer by his/her equipment. What matter is results. Non-professional shooters must be willing to share their material, and there should be an expectation that they will provide copies in a reasonable amount of time. The general idea is that people should try to process and make copies available within a day or two for Unicon use, and possibly even to share with the press. People shooting for other reasons, such as to produce a unicycling film, or the professional press, would not have to share.
- If there are more volunteers than space to accommodate them, an effort should be made to allow people with known photography skills and who deliver results. Some people take a lot of pictures, or minutes, but don't do much in terms of quality. Others may take tons, but not make them available in a reasonable amount of time. I've been guilty of that a lot, but did manage to process my Trials images and deliver a bunch during Unicon.
- Shooters must agree to follow the instructions of officials inside the perimeter, and generally stay aware at all times of the movements around them. The Trials course is a dangerous place! If shooters continue to get in the way, or not follow instructions, they can be ejected from the perimeter.
As mentioned above, events like Street are much harder to shoot for two major reasons:
- The performing space is large and spread out
- Riders are constantly moving which can leave the courteous shooters pinned down to a single spot or always moving out of the way, so they can't get as many shots
One way to address this is to assign positions or areas to the shooters. Some of this was done at Unicon XIII as well, where I remember being told where I could shoot, or to stay in a certain spot or small space. This allowed riders to move around me, as well as letting them know I wasn't going to be walking out in front of them.
If spots are assigned, the event should be able to accommodate a fairly large number of shooters, but few or none of them will be able to cover the event from all angles.
Freestyle and Standard Skill:
There is an ongoing debate about whether flash photography should be allowed. Those of us who are photographers know that most gyms are poorly lit, and for the average camera you can't stop much motion with available light. You have to have a very fast lens (and steady hands) to do this at a good ISO setting, or to crank the ISO up to grainy levels to stop the action. In other words, some gyms are very bad/impossible to get detailed shots of frozen action without additional lighting.
I prefer not to use flash. It darkens the background and is not the most flattering form of light. But sometimes it's the only way to get really nice shots. For this reason, flash should be allowed WITHIN REASON. People talk about the danger of someone using flash as a weapon against rival competitors. Or of just taking too many flash shots. This should not be allowed. To enforce that, someone would have to be in charge of paying attention to that. But the excuse that flash photos may distract the rider is a weak one. It's a performance event. If your performance is good, people are going to want to take pictures. And Mom & Dad are, even if your performance is not so good. Flash must be allowed, as long as it's not excessive, or being used specifically as a distraction.
Basketball:
I like to sit at the ends near the basket. This is where you get good shots. Look at pro basketball; that's where the photographers are. Photographers should be allowed to sit there (outside the boundary of course) at their own risk. Anything can happen: http://tinyurl.com/l95xsgn
Note that my example is a flash photo. You REALLY need flash in most of our basketball venues to stop the action, or to have a very expensive pro lens and large image sensor in your camera.
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Amen.
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As a voting member, I felt oblige to comment, even just to further support what as already being said by lovely people.
Unicorn.
B.
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So lets try to make a conclusion:
- photographers and videographers has to register themself
- the host has to accredit a possible number of them
- Pictures / Video Footage should be handed out to the host as long as it is not a proffessional Job the photographers and videographers do.
- acredited photographers and videographers has to be marked clearly that host and rider can see them
- photographers and videographerswhich are not acredited and ignore this should be deleted from the competition area
- it needs to be discussed how to handle flashlight as it can be anoying
- it can make sense to acredit some only for 50 or 25% of the competition time to give more photographers and videographersan option (but its hard to control)
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I think Olaf writes a good summary of the discussion, and these would seem good recommendations for Unicons.
But I have to ask: should such detailed rules about photographers and video filmers be in the IUF rulebook? Many smaller events, such as nationals in various countries, want to follow the IUF rulebook. But these photographer rules are overkill for smaller events, I think. So perhaps these rules should be recorded somewhere in IUF, and 'offered' to Unicon hosts as recommendations to implement, rather than having them in the rulebook?
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I think it could find its place in chapter 1 as mandatory for Unicons and recomended for all other events. Alternative it could become part of a basic "contract" between IUF and the Unicon host we actually start to develop and can also appear in a guide for hosts.
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I like your alternative better, I think.
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For now, I suggest we create this as a proposal. Later, we can decide to move it if create such a document in the IUF.
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John, you seem like you already have a lot of text written here. Would you be interested in writing an actual proposal? Feel free to email it to me first, if you want a second pair of eyes.
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I will. Might take another day or two; this has been an insane week. Much to consider in terms of making something binding, and yet flexible enough to cover various types of scenario.
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Thanks. I'm happy to contribute.
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John, what is the status here?
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Sorry, I totally forgot about this one. Reading all of the discussion so far, I can see it wanting to be come a very complicated section consisting of an entire page or more of rules just about photography. Let's try to avoid that. Most of the above can be used as guidelines, but we should leave the specifics to the officials on site.
- The Referee or Head Official for the event has the final say on photography that can affect the riders, and spectators' view
- The Referee or Head Official can appoint a person to manage this task; we should come up with a title for that job, such as Media Manager or something
- Media Managers might be best found from among the group of people who are active in the photography and video of the events
- Photo and videographers must follow the instructions of the Media Manager or Referee/Head Official, or risk being ejected from the venue
- Then the Media Manager can provide instruction, and adapt things to fit the space, the flow of the event and access to best views in a way that's appropriate to that event and space, without being bound by concrete rules that may not be a good fit
- If a Media Manager is used, that person is still under the authority of the Referee or Head Official of the competition events that are the subject of coverage
Again I would like to stress that photographers/videographers must not be judged by their equipment, which is often not relevant to final results. A person with pro gear who never produces any work doesn't do us any good. Or another who doesn't know how to use it, or how to edit. While there has to be an opportunity to allow new people, top consideration should go to those that are already known to produce good, usable results in a timely manner. Not counting actual members of the press, or people working on larger projects, such as David New with his documentary last summer.
Comments? Then I will work on making this some sort of proposal that's appropriate for our competition rulebook.
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I think you make a good point Foss.
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Yeah Foss, that's just right. I say go ahead with it.
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John, one thing that I feel is missed here:
- Photographers/filmers must never be a hinderance to the riders or the judges
Also, we always have to think about how rules apply to non-Unicon/big events.
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I think John makes a good point about keeping the rules straightforward, but flexible enough so that Event Directors can adapt to venue- or competition-specific requirements and restrictions.
Your list of specifics, including Scott's addition, is mostly good. I do think that the bullet point about "Media Managers might be best....." should be left out. I feel that it is important to have the Rules Be Rules, as much as possible. That will make it easier for people to follow, while also making it easier to write a "how to host" document in the future.
The same goes for your comments on how to choose photographers. It wasn't clear whether you intended this to be part of a rule. Unless, the Rules will state minimum criteria for who can photograph, that discussion should be left out of the rules.
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Good points by Scott and Mary. Not being a hindrance has to be priority one for people inside competition zones. And when we make rules, we must do our best to make them be actual rules and not a bunch of suggestions. That part will be harder, since this topic is a very fluid thing. I'll take another stab at it when I'm not as busy.
Lastly, as with nearly everything we're working on in this year's committee, it needs a way to gracefully degrade down to smaller events. Hopefully we can make this flexible enough to scale as well.
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This week I saw this crash at the worldchampionships track cycling:
https://www.youtube.com/v/o643eiYD9yA/?start=13.1&end=14.8&version=3
Even on that level things happen.
But 2 days later I also noticed ENG teams are using "new" equipment:
https://www.youtube.com/v/kjSwkAkAk-c/?start=9&end=11.5&version=3
For the proposal; let's not make the rules unnecessary complicated, but do create the possibility to remove unaware and/or reckless people from any competition area.
Regarding flash: as I wrote down in another discussion; mind that it is -at least in freestyle- not only annoying to competitors; but also to judges if done into their direction (which -yes- does happen).
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John, do you have time in the next week to turn this into a proposal?
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I like the proposal in general. A few points though.
ONE
The people that this proposal is about are sometimes called "photographers and filmers", sometimes "photo and videographers", sometimes "shooters". I think this refers to the same in all cases. I propose to introduce "shooters" at the first occurrence, and use only that term throughout the remaining text. Perhaps like:
Well made and published photos and videos are important in the development of the sport. However, the primary focus of these events are the competitions. Often times, at large events, there are more photographers and filmers (hereafter called "shooters") than is safe or reasonable to have in the competition’s perimeter. Thus shooters must never be a hindrance to the riders or the judges. (etc)
TWO
To me, there is some redundancy in these three consecutive bullets:
- Photo and videographers must follow the instructions of the Media Manager or Referee/Head Official or they risk being ejected from the perimeter.
- Shooters must agree to follow the instructions of officials inside the perimeter and generally stay aware at all times of the movements around them.
- If shooters continue to get in the way and/or not follow instructions they are to be ejected from the perimeter.
I suggest to replace with:
- Shooters must follow the instructions of the Media Manager or Referee/Head Official, and of the officials at the location.
- Shooters must generally stay aware at all times of the movements around them.
- If shooters continue to get in the way and/or not follow instructions they are to be ejected from the perimeter.
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A minor formatting thing: the first sentence seems to contain to superfluous 'hard returns' between large and international.
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The formatting will be fixed in actual rulebook. That extra hard returns are due to lazy copy and paste from me.
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I know I know, I didn't put it together myself, but here I am to make suggestions. One of the reasons I hesitated was because this is a procedural thing; and not competition rules. I think it would best be started out as a set of guidelines, that can be applied as needed in any size competition. With a little more work, it could probably be modified to fit all competition situations; right now it's focused on the ones with closed courses only. Anyway:
"The following rules are required for Unicon and are highly recommended for other large international competitions."
This could get complicated since it reads more like guidelines than rules.
Here's a suggested edit for Paragraph 2:
"In events with closed perimeters, it may be necessary to limit the number of photographers and filmers (hereafter called "shooters") allowed inside. We want great documentation of the events, but not at the expense of safety, and of spectators' ability to see as well.
Recommend to change the bullet describing Media Managers to the following:
- Media Managers must have a good understanding of the needs of shooters to get the job done
The bullet about use of flash assumes it is negative and unwanted I recommend the following change based on many years of shooting Trials comps at point blank range, and never getting any complaints. Depending on lighting conditions, flash gets more necessary, especially if you are shooing upward toward the subject at outdoor events. While this proposal isn't really directed at Freestyle competition, I also don't want to allow a precedent of assuming flash is bad there, as some people find it distracting. As a performer, you should expect to have not only attention, but light directed at you when performing. Stage lighting is much harder to deal with than the occasional flash. Anyway, please consider this version:
- Flash photography and video lighting are permitted unless specifically stated otherwise by the event director.
Note: I left it stated as "event director" as this is generic and safe. In a Freestyle comp, that would be the Artistic Director rather than the Chief Judge, which I believe is appropriate based on those job descriptions.
Thanks Scott and Klaas for bringing this to life as a proposal!
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John, I figured a response was coming. Thanks for replying promptly.
I like you edit for paragraph two and the media managers bullet, and have included them in the revision.
I'm not sure what your point is about the first sentence, and more importantly not sure what to do about it.
Regarding flash, I disagree with you here. I think that flash has it's place and can be used sometimes, but usually is distracting. Unicon is first and foremost our world championships and as stated in the beginning of this rule, the riders take precedence to the shooters. If a photographer wishes to use flash and knows how to use it properly, they are always allowed to ask permission. I prefer this format instead of your suggestion which is "permission unless said otherwise." I have updated this bullet point from "never" to "not" in order to make the possibility of permission more reasonable sounding.
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All of that is OK with me.
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Re: first sentence, I suggest something like saying "The following guidelines will be used for Unicon and are highly recommended for other large international competitions." This puts the text in force, but may cut down on people trying to get technical or otherwise trying to "play lawyer" with these procedural guidelines.
You may be right about the use of flash, in terms of it being misunderstood by many. Flash can be annoying when it's pointed at you, or your teammate, or your child. Flash can be distracting, and it can also potentially be used to intentionally disrupt a rider. I don't know that I have ever seen that in practice, but it's certainly possible.
On the other hand, I have never had a complaint from a Trials rider when I've used flash. In outdoor situations it's a lot less of a blast that in a dark, indoor space. So why use it if you're outdoors? Usually it's because you are shooting upward, with the rider against the sky. Without flash, you may have a silhouette, or at best, a very poorly lit subject. Here's an example from Unicon XV (of Scott!):
http://gallery.unicycling.com/Unicycling/Unicon-World-Unicycling/New-Zealand-7-Unicon-End/i-xSpJr3g/A
It's bright sunshine, but without the flash Scott would look like the guy in black who is immediately behind him.
Here's one of Max, where the sun is actually in the frame:
http://gallery.unicycling.com/Unicycling/Unicon-World-Unicycling/New-Zealand-7-Unicon-End/i-tWMMXPX/A
Without a flash, he would have no face.
This shot from Copenhagen; no flash:
http://gallery.unicycling.com/Unicycling/Unicon-World-Unicycling/2008-Unicon-XIV-Part-Two/i-pt5BjdJ/A
One of my favorites, from NAUCC 2008 in Rapid City. Without flash, this picture wouldn't even be interesting:
http://gallery.unicycling.com/Unicycling/Unicycling-Society-of-America/2008-Trials-Street-Rapid-City/i-DzqHPsn/A
What I'm worried about is this set of guidelines being used by someone who just wants to keep things simple and deny any use of flash. That would be tragic, and wrong. That's why the default must not be "no flash". It has to be something that at least asks the question. In outdoor settings, the flash is being used for fill light, not to illuminate the scene. That's a lot less harsh than in a dark gym. But in a dark gym (or skating rink), there is often not sufficient lighting to freeze the action. Without some use of flash you will have very little useable photography of your event at all. Without a full-frame DSLR or similar, you probably can't use a fast enough shutter speed to get sharp shots.
Yes, flash can be distracting. That doesn't mean don't use it, it means apply it appropriately. The higher the level of an event, the more the general level of distraction (and stress). We just finished watching the NCAA finals. Sorry, Wisconsins fans (including my dad!). That place was filled with bright lights, cameras overhead and fans going nuts. And don't look up; the lights in there are bright! That's why the photographers don't need flash. The point is, high level competition is rife with distractions that a top rider must take in stride. Please don't write off the use of flash.
So how about this as an in-between?
- The use of flash inside the perimeter requires permission from the Media Manager or Event Director.
That still leaves it in the hands of officials, but without the assumption that flash is bad.
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I'm not sure if the title of the proposal (inside the competition area) is right.What if a professional shooter is just outside the perimeter, directing his flash at a rider?
In that light (no pun intended), the meaning of "inside the perimeter" in your latest suggestion isn't fully clear. Does this refer to the flash being fired inside the perimeter? Or to the flash light illuminating the scene inside the perimeter (regardless of the location of the flash light source)?
The worry is mostly about light distracting the performing rider, it wouldn't matter whether the light is "made" inside the perimeter. But then again, flash light from the public might also be distracting, but this proposal is only about shooters inside of the competition area. Perhaps that should be extended to "inside or near" the competition area??
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I recommend removing "inside the perimeter". Controlling activities outside the "controlled" area might be a whole different challenge, depending on whether officials are allowed to eject people from the area. In any case, flash from outside the perimeter would mostly be ineffective, especially as fill flash, since the power of the light is generally very short-ranged. Flash for the purpose of lighting the subject could only be done if the subject is close to the perimeter.
But rather than complicate things, I agree with Klaas on not mentioning the perimeter, and leaving it at that.